AMTRA.com.au

Could someone at AMTRA please explain why rec rego is not allowed at the HCR? I have just changed bikes and now have rec rego. (Huusky WR 360 with std quiet exhaust.) For 4-5 rides a year its all i need. After 3 HCRs I'd like to make it four and more. Thanks. spilair@bigpond.com

Hi Ben,
There are a couple of roads in the area namely the one the property is on which is designated a major road.
The permit we are granted by DSE/Parks Vic currently does not allow us to use this road without having full registration.

I am looking at a new bike and ride about 15 times a year. When I get the bike it will also be REC REG.

Hi Brad,
 I have to disagree with the term major road being an issue against rec rego. Rec rego covers the bike on unsealed roads. That precludes the verge/ sides of any sealed road. I have had a couple of instances where authority has requested licenses etc, those on rec reg must have a valid license or permit, but the issue of major/ minor road was not an issue. I only raise this as I know that we checked vic roads when rec registering a bike a couple of months ago.

Look at the acheron way (buxton to warby) you cant use rec reg on the sealed bits at either end, but you are legal on the dirt section in the middle. Thats a fairly major road.

My two bobs worth.

Now for my 2 Bob's Worth!!!
If you can afford to Ride, you can afford Full Reg.
"Simple" get over this Rec Reg Crap, and you will never have to worry about where you can ride, it's that easy!!!!!

Well said Peter.
rec reg limits where you can ride. it has nothing to do with whether the road is dirt or not. The roads are classed and it has to do with the class number. With rec reg you can not even ride into Woods Point or on the road outside the club property legally. I get to ride only a couple of times a year but still have full reg as then I can ride where I want.

Ian

So where is this class system of roads catalogued fellas? I would like to look at it so I am better informed

OK this is off the vic roads web site!

Conditions
There are a number of conditions applying to operating a recreation vehicle. They are:
Recreation motorcycles are only permitted to be operated on roads (except declared freeways and arterial roads, including roads formerly designated as forest roads, under the Road Management Act 2004) that are:
located outside "built up areas" as defined by speed zones of less than 100 km/h, or
those areas that are not a road and are solely for the training and assessment of a holder of a motorcycle learner permit by an organisation approved by VicRoads for that purpose
the vehicle must not carry any load or a person other than the rider
the rider must wear a protective helmet of the type approved under the Road Rules Victori

Looking at this the paragraph
 including roads formerly designated as forest roads

Looks like a bit that does prove you correct! In which case I agree you are right & I am wrong. But this seems an out on vic roads behalf so I will ask them to clarify it. Not to create an angst rather to understand the issue at hand.

Now go & watch the TV!

The original question is why does AMTRA exclude rec reg bikes from the HCR.
The answer is that some of the roads used, including the road outside the property can not be used by rec reg bikes. AMTRA will not put entrants in a situation where the bikes can not legally be used.
FYI this was discussed by the HCR Committee, the AMTRA committee and at a Monthly meeting where the question was asked of the members as to whether reg reg should be allowed at the event. The majority of members present voted NO.
AMTRA expects to fill all available places easily with out rec reg bikes.
Perhaps in the future that may change but with the road outside the property not suitable for rec reg, unless the road is reclassed I cant see it happening.



Ian

The other important thing to note is that the Saturday ride will go through the township of Whitfield, and rec reg is not allowed to be used there.  Infact, every year the ride runs through one township or another and the same applies.

Theoretically, we could set the course so that it doesn't run through a town, but this would mean using the (relatively) same tracks and route, year after year, and I reckon that would become somewhat boring.

As Ian mentioned, this matter was taken to the members and discussed (at length).  The members decided to keep the event 'full reg' only.  In the background, I have been in contact with VicRoads/RTA regarding a 'Certificate of Approved Operation', which could give us a one-off allowance to use rec reg on the event.  Although I know these certificates exist, neither body has been very helpful in obtaining one.  If we can obtain this ruling, we may be able to offer reg reg for future events, provided it is what the members want

According to Vic Roads, it is legal to ride a rec reg bike on Abbeyard Rd at Abbeyard. I suggest AMTRA make this enquiry with them to find out first hand.

The DSE/Parks Vic permit can stipulate any conditions but the condition that rec reg not be allowed is a condition that neither authority has the power to enforce under the relevant acts and regulations. This condition is made in error since neither authority can enforce it and AMTRA would not be breaking any law if it did allow rec reg to enter.

It's not likely the ride will fill up, it didn't even go close last year and numbers are trending downwards. Why not just get the permit to allow rec reg as the blue light ride has done in the past?

[/quote]

According to Vic Roads, it is legal to ride a rec reg bike on Abbeyard Rd at Abbeyard. I suggest AMTRA make this enquiry with them to find out first hand.

The DSE/Parks Vic permit can stipulate any conditions but the condition that rec reg not be allowed is a condition that neither authority has the power to enforce under the relevant acts and regulations. This condition is made in error since neither authority can enforce it and AMTRA would not be breaking any law if it did allow rec reg to enter.

It's not likely the ride will fill up, it didn't even go close last year and numbers are trending downwards. Why not just get the permit to allow rec reg as the blue light ride has done in the past?
[/quote]who is this masked man[rosco p.coltrain]for a non member they sure know a lot of the ins and outs of amtra

I have personally seen the letter from Myrtleford Police stating that Abbeyard Road (as well as Buckland Valley Road) is not suitable for rec reg. This letter was sent to the HCR co-ordinator 4 years ago when the enquiry was made.

Ian

Ian

Just write to Vic roads and ask them. They are the final authority on what roads are legal for rec reg, not some bush copper from 4 years ago or the DSE/Parks Vic.

Did the members vote re rec reg in the HCR under the false belief the rec reg was not allowed out the front of the property? Sounds like whoever is spruiking this rubbish just doesn't want rec reg in the ride.

who is this masked man[rosco p.coltrain]for a non member they sure know a lot of the ins and outs of amtra
[/quote]
Hey Seano, the masked man, Rosco T Dykes  ;D :D ;D :D

Every year (since rec rego was introduced) the HCR organizing commitee has discussed the issue of inclusion of rec rego bikes.  Every year, due to the suitability of tracks and routes, the availability of fuel and other reasons, the HCR committee has decided to deny the inclusion of rec reg bikes.  This year, for the first time ever (certainly that I recall), the HCR committee took the issue directly to the AMTRA members and asked wether they wanted rec reg to be catered for.  The members said 'no'.  So that is where the decision rests!

The members of AMTRA decide which direction AMTRA heads.  The committee (HCR or general) carry out the wishes of the club.  Whilst it is good to get ideas and feedback from the forums on this web-site, it is the members who have the final say. 

I openly welcome those contributors to this thread to join AMTRA (if you haven't already done so), and get involved in the organization of the 2012 event.  If the use of rec reg at the HCR is of importance to you, then you can advocate for its use at the next ride, (that's, in part what I'm doing!)

I'd like to see all discussion on this topic (for 2011) cease, as it is a waste of energy for the HCR committe, the general committee and the members (in general).  Such energies can be better spent doing things that will benefit the ride.

Cheers.

ok all good and well to have a vote at a meeting where only a small percentage of our 300 or so members attend, yeah yeah i know there welcome to attend so why dont they blah blah .next year how about a vote on the web site so more of the members will get a vote.im sure there are a lot more interested in this than those of us that can attend meetings . just my two bobs worth

AMTRA has club meetings to talk about club issues, as it has for over forty years; it is not an internet based club.
The internet is a place where club info is exchanged and a tool the club uses to get info out there.
Meetings are where the club talks about club matters, where all people who attend hear all of the relevant info and the club makes decisions after considering all that info.

There are members of the club who never look at this site, how do they have their say ???

Why do people who only have Rec Reg get so hung up on the fact that they can't do this ride, if it was held interstate they couldn't do it, if it was held out of built up area they couldn't do it, if it uses roads that Rec Reg isn't allowed on, they can't do it. 
This is just another thing you can’t do on a Rec Reged bike.
 

you said it first tim 40 years ago , you probably didnt have videos to watch let alone cameras to film them with ,but we do at our meetings now ,things change mate its just the way it is.no harm in a little change

Why do people who only have Rec Reg get so hung up on the fact that they can't do this ride, if it was held interstate they couldn't do it, if it was held out of built up area they couldn't do it, if it uses roads that Rec Reg isn't allowed on, they can't do it. 
This is just another thing you can’t do on a Rec Reged bike.
 
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Tim, its just not people with only Rec Reg bikes who are hung up on it.
I have a fully registered bike, and if at all possible, I think rec reg inclusion for 2012 would be a good thing. Will

i would love to put in and help but as i only have rec rego all i can do is cooking and cleaning not my strong point. after talking to many members i think they would also like to put in and volunteer but are unable to due to rec rego i ride all year round and dont need full rego its not worth $500 for this once a year to help out if you can come up with a solution that wont cost me so much money  :-[ i will be there to help :-X pommie mat

I also ride a rec rego bike, and was prepared to help out on the HCR ride, but if this is the clubs attitude towards rec rego I won’t be able to. 
Just wondering when full rego bikes are scrutineered will they all be checked for ADR compliant tyres and indicators, because if they don’t comply they are unroadworthy and may as well have rec rego!

My bike too has RecReg and if I was required to have had full rego, then I probably wouldn't have been able to get into riding in the first place, I just scraped through buying a bike and gear, let alone an expensive registration that I almost never need...

Either way, I think it's AMTRA's call with regards to the HCR and trust the committee are doing the best they can to cater for everyone.  If it's too difficult to allow RecReg riders due to the HCR location and course then that's just how it is.  It would be great if the club could continue to pursue options to allow RecReg bikes as I believe the ride would attract heaps more riders and make it a more profitable event.

But if people don't like it, there's heaps of other organised rides throughout the year such as the Stockmans Rally, Red Light Ride, Sawmill Rally etc that all cater for RecReg bikes and if people want to ride in an event with RecReg then there are options.  From all accounts, the AMTRA HCR is a unique ride due to its challenges, location and is incredibly well organised, but if you want a ride with a RecReg bike, then you need to currently look elsewhere.

With regards to Sean's point, having a vote on the website would be great.  But failing that, I believe that having the topics for each meeting listed on the website would be the next best thing.  My thought would be that members would need to submit their main topics for discussion by the Monday before the meeting as a comment against the calendar entry (or a PM to a committee member).  The president (or committee) decide which topics are then tabled and discussed (or carried over due to time limits) and post these by the Tuesday before the meeting, allowing the members enough time to see what's being discussed so interested members can ensure they attend.  If a new topic needs to be raised at the meeting then it's done so at the end and if time permits.  It's not easy for me to attend each meeting, but I will ensure I attend if a topic of interest to me is being raised.

I only heard about the HCR/RecReg discussion after it happened and suspect that not enough interested parties were there to support a case for pursuing RecReg options at future events.  As a side note, I attended Pete's Post-Chrissy Eildon ride (top day) and noticed that atleast 40-50% of the group had RecReg so it is popular (event though we rode into Jamieson)

But as Serge said, the 2011 event is Full Reg only and can't be changed, just need to put our support behind the committee to make it a success..

Well said dan ever thought about running 4 a committee position. I will scrub u of that ride list, I hope she is going 2 make it up 2 you. Will

Gary and Broco5,

You don't need full rego to volunteer, in fact you don't need any rego!

There is plenty of duties that AMTRA needs able bodies to perform.  Cooking and cleaning, yes, but also check points, front gate check out (my favorite), camp-site direction, registration tent, scruitineering tent, beer/food sales tent and so on.  Over the weekend you could be asked to do a multiple of tasks, but we can't allocate those tasks untill we have a pool of volunteers to rely on.

Sure, we need sweep riders, and those riders will need to have the appropriate registration, but please don't let that deter you from coming away to what is traditionally a great weekend.  And more importantly, the primary fund raising event for AMTRA.

Onya Dan for a level headed but pointed post , their are allways to sides to any story and you covered both extremley well.

If a cant ride I cant help seems to be the general concensus , but from a personal perpective if i couldnt ride i would go and help out anyway due to the fact that this ride is a major fund raiser for the club , and if it wasnt for AMTRA my weekends would be pretty darn boring and quality rides with quaility support and good mates would be much harder to come by ...

not all people can out lay the money for full reg when you ride 3-4 time a year  :D :D :D